I am not an industry insider. I don’t get paid by any of the companies to write for Wax Heaven. I am simply a long time collector who loves this hobby. That being said, collecting, in my opinion is dying faster than ever before and it’s due to greed not only by the companies but also by the collectors who demand “high-end” products and autograph and game-used relics-laced into every pack of trading cards.
Despite us Bloggers who write every single day about baseball cards, this hobby is clearly aimed at young collectors. So tell me, when you were a kid could you afford a $120 dollar box of baseball cards? There will always be rich, spoiled kids who could but for the most part asking a parent for that kind of money was grounds for a smack on the ass. That leaves the young collectors no choice but to hit the bargain bins for retail blasters and the occasional pack of SPx, while the adults who have jobs and steady income can drop thousands of dollars and pull the “MOJO”.
Sorry Topps, Donruss, and Upper Deck… I would much rather drop $200 dollars on an Xbox360 console which will provide years of joy rather than taking a risk and purchasing a box of Triple Threads or U.D Black. It just doesn’t make sense why the companies continue to pull these stunts. Even the low-end stuff is priced way too high.
If the card companies don’t wake up and realize they have driven away so many collectors with their outrageous prices we will lose the young collector to video games and other much more affordable hobbies. Brands like Upper Deck X was a step in the right direction but still way overpriced. At $30 dollars a box, it could have been the perfect product for kids to bust, instead, it was trashed all over the blogosphere.
One such brand that deserves a resurrection is Fleer Circa, which offered plenty of base cards and neat inserts and it didn’t cost you an arm and a leg to put together a set. Sure, at times Fleer’s writers could be a bit cheesy but isn’t collecting supposed to be fun? Paying $200 dollars for a box of cards and pulling a Matt Kemp is the leading cause of Hobby suicide among collectors and frankly, it should never happen.
Meanwhile, Razor has created the $2,200+ dollar pack of trading cards (link). And then people wonder why hobby shops are closing down and card shows have pretty much disappeared off the face of the Earth unless you live in one of the big states. There is going to be a day very soon when many collectors have just one choice for hobby shops and it’s called eBay.
Oh wait, that’s already the reality for many of us.
Great topic!
Is the hobby for young collector’s any more? I think it should be and wish it was, but I don’t think it is now. I think it’s extremely difficult for a kid to get into collecting cards now without a huge bankroll.
Unless the parents (Dads) collect, the kid most likely will not collect. That was the fun part. When I was 12, I would go to the local show with my dad. I am into my 30′s and I still go with my dad every so often. I took my son and my dad to the local show a few months back. 3 generations collecting. That is what the hobby is suppose to be. Not dropping $100 a pack, but family bonding.
Kids can afford to collect cards…they just cannot afford to do it the way we used to, i.e. by opening packs. Even packs of low-end base sets run $2+, which is ridiculous.
Consider that twenty years ago (1988), a pack of Topps got you 15 cards for 40 cents, or roughly 3 cents a card. With cumulative inflation of roughly 70% since then, today’s base packs should cost about a nickel per card. Instead, however, today’s base packs run about 20 cents a card, which is roughly 4 times what they should be. Yes, new technology has increased the cost of card production, but not that much!
Kids today have to buy on Ebay (not as much fun as opening packs) or buy at shows (if you can find one). But saving up your allowance to go down to the corner store and buy a box of Topps to sit on the floor and open….kids can’t afford to do that anymore.
My boys started w/ the $1 packs but that has passed and now they are not happy without something nice. A good example is my youngest son (9) has his b-day Feb 24 and first thing he asked for was a box of 2006 UD Legendary Cuts, he knows what he likes for sure but I tell you If I didn’t collect I would think he was crazy.
at $200, even i would want more than a matt kemp!
When I was a kid during the eighties, a 36-pack box of Topps cards was about $10-15 (or about $20-25 adjusted for inflation). From what I can remember, my allowance was $10/month. The minimum wage was $3.35, and I probably earned another $20-30 a month mowing lawns and gardening. Minimum wage was $3.35 for most of my adolescence, which meant that it took me about four hours of work to earn enough $$$ to buy a box of cards.
Today it would take a kid about twice as much work (i.e. 8-10 hours) to earn enough $$$ to buy a box of base product, and of course since there are fewer packs per box and fewer cards per pack, it would take them probably 15-20 hours of work to earn enough to complete a set from opening packs. In comparison, in the 80′s you got 540 cards per box, so completing a set usually took no more than two boxes.
With regards to super high-end products like Razor….they are basically just another form of gambling.
Great post. As a kid I never had a whole box, but I broke all sorts of wax packs at the pharmacy, card shop, used book store and never really spent more than a few dollars. Honestly, kids won’t come back unless it’s Topps and/or Upper Deck that goes back to equivalent pricing in today’s dollars. Busting wax today is gambling. Kids without rich parents have no shot at anything cool.
Great topic Mario. As I have mentioned before the only thing that my Father and had in common while I was growing up was sports cards. I really do miss the days that I traded in returnable 16 oz. Pepsi or Coke bottles to get a few wax packs. Sometimes I found myself in a large department or discount store and there you could find rack or cello packs… my Holy Grail. I know that’s all gone, but I did have a chance to relive that feeling a few years ago.
My Father came for a visit and I had picked up a few old wax boxes for us to open. Although we weren’t busting National Treasures, I wouldn’t trade the pleasure and memory of sitting at the kitchen table and opening 83 Topps Baseball with my Pop for all the high-end product in the world. It was really nice and special.
Later Gang
Submarine Shane
The marketing guys at the companies don’t understand the youth market, and the low end products produce such a low profit margin, there is no real reason for the companies to persue it.
Upper Deck is back! But for how long? I hear they are in serious financial trouble
I totally agree with you about young collectors. I have a plan for later this spring , I’m still working out all the details but hopefully in a few days the whole story will posted here : http://baseballdad-mytribeblog.blogspot.com/
I just need to hear from one key person to get the ball rolling. Stay tuned !!
Whose fault is that?
Check out boxbreaks and message board posts, unless they get those awesome inserts, people say they got crap or got nothing.
Even people buying low end stuff only seem to care about the inserts. This is what people want and what people buy.
This is the way the whole hobby has gone. Seems to me that the companies are actually listening to what consumers want but that still doesnt make anybody happy.
The only way for them to go is with bigger and rarer inserts… which cost more and more for them to produce… which then cost more for us to buy… which brings prices always up… which brings people to complain more and more about what they get for their money.
I don’t think bringing back the kids with $0.99 packs of base cards has any chance to work.
This industry looks screwed
I think the card companies need to do some real marketing studies to find out what all kinds of collectors want. I don’t know why kids aren’t buying cards, but I don’t think price has a lot to do with it (at least until the economy tanked last year.)
I was working part-time in a video shop during the Pokemon craze, and you would not believe the money that kids were dropping to buy those cards from us. I don’t think those kids would have had any problem buying a $100 box of sports cards if they wanted to – they were just blowing the cash on foil Charizards instead.
Young collectors are, in my estimation, becoming less and less relevant to companies like Topps and Upper Deck because of how difficult it would be to generate any kind of profit flow, especially compared to the type of money being made off of the 18-34 demographic. As I’ve stated before, in the end it all comes down to the bottom line. These companies don’t care who they sell to any more. They just want to make the most many they can, and if that means eliminating sports card products geared towards kids, then that’s exactly what they’ll do. Unfortunately, that also means that if they want to aim for the high-rolling box gamblers and tease the rest of us with the chance of scoring a patch of Woolly Mammoth hair at astronomical odds while charging us an arm and a spleen knowing that we’ll gladly pay, that’s what they’ll do. It’s a sad state of affairs, but business is business.
“They just want to make the most many they can” in my previous comment should read “They just want to make the most money they can”.
Sorry. Thanks.
Awkward Moment….I would have to strenuously disagree with your statement that even people buying low-end stuff only seem to care about the inserts. Look at all the people who have been collecting Heritage, Goudey, Allen & Ginter, etc….they couldn’t give a hoot about inserts. All they want is regular cards & SP’s so that they can finish the set.
The problem is that manufacturers are making it prohibitively expensive even to try and finish a set. Take Topps Heritage, for example. In 2009 we’ve got a 500 card base set with 75 SP’s. Yet you only receive 192 cards per box, 5-10 of which are going to be useless inserts which do nothing to help you complete the set. So you are looking at a minimum of three boxes and $200 to try and complete the set, and even then you will probably still be missing quite a few commons and more than half the SP’s.
So as much fun as opening packs is, it’s probably cheaper to build Heritage sets solely on Ebay. You can ususally get all the base commons for $10-20, and SP’s for $1-2 each.
And that’s the crux of the problem. Present day wax packs, at all levels, are too expensive. For preciselt that reason, many adult collectors, in fact, are turning to building older sets from the 80′s and 90′s, where wax is still really cheap. I just got 10 boxes of 1993 Upper Deck baseball on Ebay for $20, for example. It’s a gorgeous set with terrific photography, and for that $20 I’ll get to rip 360 packs which will build me 3-4 sets. You can get boxes of just about everything from 1980-1995 for anywhere from $10-$50….and they provide just as much ripping fun at a much lower cost as stuff being produced today.
Until today’s manufacurers create a better value proposition for consumers, they are going to struggle to move product.
As I said before I am a kid collector. I get a blater box when ever I can just to rip wax. I have only bought one pack of SPx and a couple of Topps Co-signers, I have bought one hobby box 2007 Upper Deck Elements for $20.00 wich I thaught was a steal it was. my one hobby shop charges a littel more than the other shop. they both get different products and some of the same, but anyway some of the prices are riduculos, but it seems high-end products come out at the end of the year by then I’ve bought just about joten boad with the produts and I’m just waiting for 2009 Topps and Upper Deck and hope cheaper produts or more trips to Wal mart and Target.
I just wanted to say there is no supply without demand. The autogamers are pushing the prices up and the greed of the “investors in disguise” collectors are feeding this demand and encouraging the companies to do what they are now doing. What card companies should do assuming they are really aiming to get the kids back is to create 2 pdt divisions (1) gd old days low end no guranteed mojo crap flagship pdts and (2) one ridiculous high end no base, no insert, one card per pack mojo pdt line. The first line is based on large quantity sales of low priced cards while the second is clearly for the investors. Simple basic marketing
Has Razor figured out that we’re in a recession? FGSFTS–screw Razor. That “pack” price is considerably more than my house payment–and I have a big house payment.
I’d rather buy $2265 worth of lottery tickets. $10k – $25k pulls? Not in this economy-even for a Washington / Obama dual cut sig.
And I certainly don’t want the risk of pulling a Frankencard cut sig of Cal Coolidge from a 1926 White House dinner menu.
no way, im 12 years old, my dad hates cards, and i love em! cards are my favourite thing to collect, trust me man, you will always have me down as a young collector! i got into it by myself actually, when i started playing sports, cards inspired me to get better and better at each sport. and just to let you know, my cards are all in mint condition if not pristine! i have a lebron james rookie college pictured card, graded from pristine grading company and guess what it’s marked! 10-pristine and perfect condition! i have a rookie peyton manning beckett graded 8.5 and im trying to get my other p. manning graded! no way man, there is young collectors every where, and most of the collectors like me, keep there cards in great shape!!!! i collect all sports also by the way, cause i play all sports! they inspire me! and now i have a GIGANTIC collection, at least 6 thousand cards! and probably about 200 memerobilia cards! (jerseys and autos by memerobilia).
well, its close to $2,500 and what if you got a george w. bush auto. i would be totally infuriated if that happened. 99 packs total, well i dont know, 1 card though? and it’s a president? i saw a guy get a clean fresh new baseball autod by gearge bush so is he going to suddenly make 30,000 dollars now?! you have to figure, if you did pull a kennedy auto 1/1, who in the right mind would play 30,000 dollars for it? and he was one of the best! oh geez, not ebay! OH NO! im never ordering off there again. i got a little bent up card and it was a dirk nowitzki jersey, luckily my friend wanted it so i traded for like an andrew ladd jersey card. wow, got away with that one! u know i could by that box, ive saved up now for like, my whole life really so i could afford it but why in the he** would i waste money on that box when i could by like 240 singles, or like 40 autos or jerseys? this is the choices us kids have to make! i would rather take the singles or jerseys and autos rather than pull one really great auto. like a mantle, when i could have a sowers, miller, glaus, tulowitzki, etc. now, i can get a branded wood letterman for 15 dollars! wow, good deal! i can get a rookie tulo auto for 15 dollars! are you kidding me? now those are great deals that will pay you off in the end! however, a one hundred dollar box of triple threads for one joe montana triple jersey is NOT worth it. ok, you could get 40 montana jersey cards with that money. which is more worth it to you? by some divine miracle i went in to a card auction at the local card store hopin to come out with a montana jersey card, theres one in the box for like 25 dollars, so i said,” hey maybe later if i have enough money, ill take it into consideration.” guess what, like a 3 dollar pack, i pulled an awesome montana jersey in way better condition and A WHOLE LOT CHEAPER than the other one. plus it was pretty thick, i think it was like a ud heroes or something, thats one of my favourite products. it’s an awesome card!
fleer has always been an awesome priced box, not the best but still great priced and good cards also! it just makes me wanna just quit collecting when i buy a be a player hockey pack and later i find out the auto is 2 dollars when the pack was 13 dollars.
oh by the way, how was the usa baseball box? ok your probably getting sick and tired hearing from me, but card collectors are few and far between anymore, even you stated that. i like sharing with you my opinions about this great hobby we call sport card collecting. back in the old days when people use to collect, they had about 500 cards if that, about 100 of each sport. now you go to a local card store with your buddy, you both buy a pack from the same sport and same product, you pull a russ martin jersey, and you see your buddy pull a 1/5 quad auto of ichiro suzuki, ken griffey jr. randy johnson, and raul ibanez with the title,” Best of the Mariners” and you just sit there wondering why you didnt pick that pack and get that card. now of course that never happened to me, well never that bad
. but i have had some bad stuff happen and you’re happy for the person but at the same time your so infuriated out of your mind that you didnt pick that pack. It really especially hurts when you hat your hand on that pick and you felt you should pick another cause you figured the other would be better and it turns out you were WRONG! so then you buy another pack hoping to get a card like that, doesnt happen. buy another, buy another buy another, pretty soon your tapped out and disappointed. then all those hours you put in for packs, are wasted and you didnt get anything but a bunch of singles and a russel marting jersey (not like that’s bad) but for 100 dollars it is! you worked 3 days for that 100 dollars and you feel cheated. thats why i dont really buy real expensive products anymore like 12 dollar packs and stuff like that. i buy mvp, allen and ginter, or baseball heroes for about 1-5 dollars, i wind up getting a tom glavine jersey card (true story) and a demitri young bat card (another true story) and a ton of awesome singles including a rookie card of tim lincecum all for about 40 bucks. but conditioning is another thing, you have to constantly worry about conditioning of your cards! trust me, slips and pages add up! if you have a bent card, it’s almost as if it’s completely worthless. i have 2 bent cards in my whole colection and the card store owners said that they were absolutely worthless. well that didnt make me feel to good, then i see some kid put a double auto straight into his pocket, and he sells it back for 5 bucks. well why cant my single be worth anything if his auto is wiped off the card and its bent? it just gets me…….
by the way, at walmart upperdeck x is 20 dollars and probably the BEST box i’ve ever invested in, although i got a gagne jersey with his dodgers picture, with the back sayin he plays for the brewers, it didnt bother me so much cause i got about 11 chrome cards which are my favourtie singles, one jersey card, another Evan Longoria rookie card, and about 10 other rookies to go along, and a ton of more singles. thats one of my most favourited baseball product now! all of the cards were in perfect condition also which really helps now in days. it’s great for middle class kids for me, cause im not exactly a rich boy, i get around but products like that really help me boost my collection up a ton! ill never totally get out of the hobby, but i’ve slowed down in the past couple months to save up, and trust me, companies are loosing me to rock band cause thats much more rewarding, you learn how to cordinate with a real instrument, and that will last forever! cards you really look at for about 1 time, then you put em in a slip, and stash em away in the rest of the pile. where rock band for the ps3, i will look at for many years, and ill play for many years!ill never totally back out of cards though, unless it falls into the hands of eBay, then thats when ill back out. look at it this way, all those cards you have will sky rocket and if people need cards, its their hobby and they need em, so they will pay. $350 for a mantle original sounds a little crazy to me, but to a 40 year old rich guy, thats a terrific deal!
You are right on Mario…and that’s precisely why it’s IMPERATIVE that we older collectors pass the hobby down to our kids so that they know and understand what the hobby is REALLY all about. You’ve seen my videos and you hear my son learning every time I open a pack. Every day he’s asking me when we can open more and he’s helping my put together sets all the time. THAT is our calling – it’s our duty to make sure we teach them well. Some of the fools on YouTube sometimes get a tongue lashing from me and others like me when they made silly videos about MOJO and all that garbage. I feel it’s my duty, also, to educate THEM as well. I recently took a few younger YouTubers under my wing and I think they learned from me. We can’t let the hobby die, Mario!! I know when you are blessed with kids that you will teach them well. Did you see the video of the dude who won the YSL contest with Upper Deck? His daughter helped him collect it. She looks about 12 years old or so. That was great to see. KEEP IT ALIVE!!!!
As a yound collector, I try to pick up more for boxes. Its a much smaller risk spending $20 on a card of a rookie you think will do well than spending $200 on a box that has $40 worth of cards.
I get what you’re saying. My son, six, loves baseball and his baseball cards. Fortunately, we have many nice hobby shops (in addition to the big box stores) locally that have kid friendly boxes and packs priced cheaper than retail. Heck the monthly flea market has a wax dealer who busts boxes & cases until he gets all the hits and sells the packs for $1 each! He can have the hits… Isaac gets packs of Heritage, Topps base, Chrome, etc… for a buck a pop and completes sets where he can. If it weren’t for those dealers though, I’m not sure he’d have the number of cards that he has or the fun he has. Lately though, through trades via the blogosphere, he’s had as much fun opening packages when he gets home as he did opening packs. He’s waiting patiently for 2009 Topps, saving up change in his bank and marking the days until the next Flea Market… or next trip to Target where he knows we’ll throw a pack or two in the cart for him.
I will say that one particular local dealer succeeds because he caters as much to kids (5 – teens) as he does to adults. His shop is located in the local sport complex where kids have indoor soccer, basketball camps & leagues, gymnastics, etc… Its just inside the main doors and he gets a ton of foot traffic on game and practice days. He only carries Topps and usually only the base set, though he’ll have the occasional Bowman pack here and there. He has the $1 grab bags, the cheap star boxes, 10 cent Cardinal boxes, and the 25cent vending machine. Kids are in there all the time with sandwich bags full of the loose change buying singles, packs, bags, etc… Sure he has the higher priced stuff in the cases but I have a feeling those are geared towards schmucks like me who are drawn into the store (and now hobby) by their kids.
I remember when I was a kid, Skybox Z-Force basketball was priced at $19.99 in K-Mart for about 120 cards. Even now that I’ve made mistakes and chased the “big hits”, that was still probably one of the most fun boxes I’ve ever busted. I sat on my bed and ripped through each pack and slowly savored each base card and was estactic with the sweet inserts I pulled (included a QuickStrike Michael Jordan!). Looking back, the card design is cheesy as all hell and the cards are now worthless, but as a kid, I didn’t care. It was all about getting the most cards for the least money and doing what I did best…collect for the sake of collecting.
Those were goods times…
Ok, I just found this blog here is my take. What were we all told when we were collecting in the 80′s and 90′s, that baseball cards were an investment in the future we could retire early. Well it’s been 15 yrs I’m still working, cards held no value, people walked away. And to kids today, video games, gold chains, and cell phones took away the collecting aspect. Anyone who doesn’t believe that sportscard collecting is not gambling your crazy.