There was a time when I could walk into one of the many card shops in my city and plunk down a few dollars for a pack of cards. If the brand was considered “high-end”, maybe $7 dollars tops. I would bust these packs and be amazed at the designs and wonderful photography all the companies were producing.
Back in 1996 I saved up $100 dollars and walked into Florida Frank’s and bought as many packs of 1996 Upper Deck SPx I could afford. Going through each pack I was somewhat disappointed that along with every star, occasionally I’d get stuck with a dud or two. When I walked away, I felt happy with my purchase even though I didn’t pull one of the two certified autographs in the product, seeded once in every 2000 packs.
Back then design was the main priority and game-used relics and autographs were nothing more than a bonus. There was not a single brand no matter how high-end that promised a “hit” per box or more with the exception of Leaf/Donruss Signature. That did not matter to me or any other collector I knew.
Today collectors have become incredibly spoiled by the times. If there is not at least one “hit” per box many deem it junk and if that $300 dollar box of Sterling doesn’t yield a Babe Ruth than it’s a rip-off. We’ve become spoiled by seeing Babe Ruth jerseys, Mickey Mantle autographs, and four-color patches.
We already know sales are down 80% and The Hobby is on shaky legs and it is because of those super high-end brands. If the card companies didn’t have to waste so much resources appeasing to the masses who just want their “hits” and throw the base cards down as they bust their pack, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Look, I love those high-end products but if you are a true collector do you really need 3-4 “hits” in your box of 2009 Icons? What if Upper Deck didn’t have to waste their time inserting those worthless low-end autographs and relics into half of their releases and instead just added really great ones with higher odds, would anyone notice?
What if we saved the guaranteed hits for the high-end products and only added a few great ones in the low-end and set builder brands? That’s how it once was and it worked out well. Maybe things weren’t perfect but at least collectors could fill up the National and weren’t mocked constantly on ESPN every other day.
No one is calling for The Hobby to “unring the bell” but a change needs to be made. If collecting was at an all-time high when cards were ridiculously overproduced then why is it struggling so much during the days when you can pull a Babe Ruth autograph and a piece of Mickey Mantle’s bat from a pack of cards?
Truth is, when packs of cards rival that of car payments it pushes away the casual collectors. If you think that Bill Hall bat relic and the “1 of 1″ JR Towles printing plate is really going to keep a casual collector interested than you should probably take a position with today’s card companies.
If you feel like we need a change, let it be known through the new media of collecting. We collectors who read and participate in blogs and message boards have a voice. We no longer have to let others speak for us through the old format of magazines. Collectors were continuously bringing up the sticker issues with Topps now look how many of their products have been 100% on-card.
Hey, it’s a great start.
"It could be bigger..."
Only 2 things I don’t agree with.
1. If the hobby is so shaky, why do I constantly get outbid on eBay?
2. Topps on-card autos are 95% prospects and rookies, 5% Jay Bruce
best blog you’ve had yet
There will always be insane player collectors out there.
You collect a loved and respected guy, it’s no wonder you get outbid.
I on the other hand collect one of the least favorite human beings in the sports world who is considered a pariah in his game and I lose out on 99% of cards I bid on.
Player and set collectors will never leave at least not for good because we are constantly catered to at least 2-3 times per year with flagship brands and good “hits” but what about the casual collector or the sports fan who is curious about collecting?
There is a lot of overpriced product out there that won’t keep him collecting for long. You’re looking at a guy who once paid $130 for Co-Signers two years in a row.
Why? I have no clue… I have nothing to show for it today.
Somehow the hobby carries on though. It will come back more when the economy comes back.
I’m sure gambling, bar, club, resort, airline, hotel, rental car revenues are down right now too. We are in the middle of a HUGE recession that I think a lot of people have not come to grips with yet, and this is a hobby predicated solely on discressionary income. Not as much of that to go around for the last 2 years
Ibleedbrooklyn,
Thanks for the compliment!
Charlie,
A lot of collectors like to blame the economy’s downward spiral of the last couple of years but card sales have been on the decline for a long time.
Looking at the numbers in this article from 2005, it’s surprising there is even still cards to collect. That is a huge colossal failure in my eyes. The “new” technology has clearly failed. Yes, thousands collect but compared to the early 90′s it’s minuscule.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0801/p11s01-alsp.html
I have to respectfully disagree on this. Things have gone down in the industry because the economy overall has gone down. It will, believe it or not, go back up. You have many people such as myself, who would never buy cards if it were not for guaranteed hits. There are products made for different intended audiences.
There are still low end set builder sets, and there are high end guaranteed products. They appease different masses. People complain the set builder products have no effort put into their design, and it is probably because it isn’t financially sound to invest so much time and effort into a less desired product. Whether or not the industry took a wrong turn with guaranteed hits, they still have to operate and cater to what is their current most profitable products.
I guaranteed the profit off of a box of Icons is much higher then something such as UDx. Watered down hits suck but frankly it is part of the hobby and you learn to deal with it. Frankly it is my only draw to the hobby, I like autographs, and memorabilia. I don’t care so much for pictures of guys on cardboard otherwise. I’d stigmatize someone who collected worthless pictures of men more so then someone who collects autographs personally.
I’d like to see guaranteed hits per box stay, but I could see it being toned down a bit, 4-8 a box can lead to being too watered down for the price point a box with that many hits would reach. But if there is no guarantee, you take out a lot of the current market that is keeping the card companies afloat for now.
To add on to what I already said, my personal opinion on why the industry is mainly down, there is no advertising. I go to a multitude of NFL/MLB games every year, you never see one sign or commercial. There is no stands to buy cards, not even crappy products in the souvenir stores.
How do companies expect new collectors to come into the hobby? The only current way is to already be a card collector, or know one. That is it. People don’t randomly walk into card shops and start collecting. Most people are oblivious to the industry. Buy a damn TV ad every once in a while for a sporting event, then you’ll see things pick back up.
Actually Topps auto’s consist of 25% of Brad Hand’s, 25% of The New Orleans Saints practice squad, 25% of the scouts of MLB, 12% of the rookies, and 13% of celebrities. LOL!
Seriously though the hobby has had it’s roller coaster moments and yes it has been declining lately however I seriously believe when the economy does pull through it’s rough ride the hobby will pull through too. It may not be by staggering amounts but as more of the issues we’ve been complaining about in the hobby are addressed and fixed by the companies the more people will notice the changes and it may perk ones interests once again in the hobby. It’s a two way street.
yeah this is very true.
If anyone from the card companies is reading today I AGREE 100% with Mario here.
for a long all you had to do is beat the competition by being the most innovative.. .now dont try to think outside the box but just get back where you were successful. doing the same thing over and over works great if youre thriving, but when problems are as bad as they have been late you really need to rely on whos in charge- the collectors.
Sterling isn’t $300, its below $200. And the people who buy it should know they are taking that risk on gettin Jim Palmer over Babe Ruth. That’s exactly why they buy it though, and why people will continue to buy it. The gamble to spend almost $200 to pull a Ruth cut that they can sell for large amounts of money.
I know I don’t spend $200 on 1 box of cards, and only buy product that I like that has the possibility of me pulling a big money card. I understand, and im sure a lot of other people out there who collect and bust wax understand, that most of the time you won’t make your money back on wax.
I don’t think I can agree with you on the point about the hobby falling or whatever. There will always be collectors, dealers and prospectors. It’s 2009 and the game of baseball cards has changed since back when we were kids, and I am all for it.
I could careless if someone is in the hobby just to buy and sell because that person is in the hobby, generating more money for the hobby.
If the card companies went back to how it used to be, with no “hits” Im sure a decent amount of people would get out.
The thought of pulling a card that would sell for $1000+ out of a $100 box will always keep people buying. And when they get a crappy box, well, they know what they were getting themselves into.
I agree with Mario,
where is the challenge of getting the big hits when all you have to do is spend $300-$600 a pack to get those hits (which aren’t even that great). The market is watered down with all these weak auto’s and patch’s the 1/1 printing plates of everyone under the sun. There’s no value anymore. I feel that you hurt the hobby by these overpriced sets you discourage people to spend that kind of money so they never get in or they spend that type of money and get dissapointed and they leave the hobby and never come back. Unfortunately it’s more business for people than hobby. I’m not a baseball fan but from the blogs it’s seems that A&G sets have the right Idea behind them as far a set collecting that where the hobby needs to go to. It’s to business rather than fun the hobby unfortunately has lost it’s innocence for profit
I kind of agree with some of what you are saying, but I hate to hear something like “if you are a true collector do you really need 3-4 “hits” in your box”. I don’t know why we need to classify some of us as “true” collectors. This implies that high end collectors are not “true” collectors and therefore are ruining the hobby. As if there is a wrong way for someone to collect.
I’m not a high end collector. I like my hits as much as the next guy, but I collect more for the sets and the base cards. But who the hell am I to tell someone how to collect? What makes the way I collect superior to the way Gellman collects? Nothing.
I don’t necessarily disagree that we count too much on hits in the low end stuff that just doesn’t seem necessary. And, maybe a set where an auto was a really rare pull was good a while back, but we’re past that now and I see no way of turning back. Maybe that’s a bad thing. But, to imply that high end and high end collectors are to blame while ignoring a lot of the other reasons for the decline is wrong.
I’ve long thought the same thing myself. It’s one of the reasons why I took my first break form the hobby. Things were just getting too expensive. When I came back, I bought a couple of basketball boxes with short printed rookies where you have no hope of ever completing the set and I got fed up again. I kept picking up singles of players the whole time, but every now and then I get fed up with buying new wax. As you can see from my blog, I’ve spent a lot more time busting stuff at least a year old than I have have new stuff.
Yes…Great article Mario. Card companies need to slash their prices and stop making this hobby fun only to those with padded wallets. I don like buying single cards on ebay because i don get to bust the packs. However it is so expensive to buy packs and boxes these days.
Mario, this line sucks. Sorry.
Look, I love those high-end products but if you are a true collector do you really need 3-4 “hits” in your box of 2009 Icons?
There are three times to four times as many “not true” collectors out there that wouldnt touch it, than “true” collectors that would. Believe it or not, the blogosphere is not a microcosm of the actual makeup of the hobby. More people are actually WORSE than I am, and ONLY care about the hits, regardless of design. Thats why Triple Threads is so popular. If there were more “true” people as you say, they would gear the products towards them, rather than towards people like me.
I think people fail to realize why it was so popular in the late 80′s, vintage was worth an arm and a leg, bringing up speculative value of the overproduced era, that has now crashed.
I do agree with you here, Mario. Back in the day I used to get all excited about ’96 and ’97 Fleer because there was an insert in nearly every pack! Just a run of the mill, no frills insert of a card that just looked like a bat – no actual pieces of one anywhere to be found.
I think a lot of the reason people care less about products with no ‘hits’ is because as collectors and consumers we’ve gotten smarter, meaning that we’re no longer fooled with recycled photos on cheaper card stock. I think Topps sells it’s flagship well enough with just one hit per box.
As far as how many hits per box there should be, I think one or two is perfectly reasonable. Any more and you just start getting them of players you don’t really care about, especially when it comes to autographs. I think relics are kinda cool regardless of who they’re of, but that’s probably because I’m a budget collector and never buy the 6 hits per pack type products anyway.
Like everything else in this world, card collecting is cyclical. Eventually relics and autos will fade and something else will crop up. Who knows what it’ll be, and maybe we’ll all just go back to appreciating a great base set (which is already happening with A&G…), but things will change yet again.
I agree with Beaverman on card companies needing to advertise at stadiums. I think it would make people more aware of the hobby. And why they don’t sell cards at stadiums anymore is puzzling. You would think that at a stadium with 30,000-40,000 people that somebody would be interested in buying cards. When I went to baseball games as a kid at Milwaukee County Stadium, I would always 4 or 5 packs of baseball cards.
Everyone can throw their money at the $300 packs all they want. I wait and just collect the base CUBS cards and put them in my album just like I did when I was a kid. I do prefer refractors, but I really could care less about game used patches, I would rather have the whole jersey that i could wear anyway.
I don’t know how it is anywhere else, but they DO sell cards at Jacob’s…errr….Progressive field in Cleveland. The problem is the packs cost at least twice as much as they cost everywhere else. It makes no sense.
People who don’t collect would probably pass due to the price. And, current collectors pass because they know it’s a rip off.
It’s so dumb. Just because you can charge 3x as much for beer and hot dogs doesn’t mean people are willing to pay ridiculous prices for cards.
As for the poeple who are talking about how many hits per box is “enough” or the “right amount”. I don’t get it. Why is it bad to have some boxes with 0-1 hits, some boxes with 2 hits, some with 4, or 6…on up to the high end products. Why is it a bad thing to have variety and let people collect whatever the heck they want?
I think the Hobby is geared towards the dollars rather than the love of the sports and the players on the cards. Most people out there buy the box then go right around and throw the cards on ebay to make a profit. A lot of collectors don’t care about who the auto on the card is of only how much it’ll will bring them. The industry needs to overhaul much lesser sets, Better product design, the need to increase the Value, get the kids involved, plus keep the Older guys happy. I’m a football guy where’s the thrill in knowing that a guy like Beanie Wells will have some where between 25-40 rookie cards this year and an upwards of 150 different cards his first year. How valuable would some of the older players be if Mantle, Ruth, Montana, Gretzcky had that many cards there rookie seasons.
Motherscratcher the reason to many hits is bad is because it ruins the value of the cards. Think of lottery would you try once a week to spend $5 dollars to win a million dollars–definately. Now if the Lottery divided that up into 100,000 prizes of only 10 dollars would it be worthwhile to try and throw $5 at such a measly winning. The more hits = the less value why would someone pay you top dollar for a 2009 rookie auto when he can just wait because he know that for the same rookie there has been and upward of 5,000 cards signed between all different 30-40 sets for the year.
There is some advertising going on: at Citizens Bank Park, the Phillies starting lineups are done on the Phanovision with Topps cards and they do sell Phillies team sets throughout the stadium. Also, for the first time maybe ever, I saw two Topps commercials on TV! Both were on the MLB network recently. So maybe they are trying to bring in new collectors with a baseline ad.
I think the biggest problem is the looming reality that the hobby doesn’t have younger generations of collectors coming up. What happens when the older generations start to die off? It may sound morbid, but seriously, when you go to a show, what’s the average age there? 45? 55? 65? I feel that my generation (I’m 33) is one of the last of the hobby. There were a lot of us when the hobby was booming in the late ’80s early ’90s, but a lot of my generation left and never returned. I’m still here, but when I go to shows, I feel that I’m often the youngest by 10-20 years, which is ridiculous.
It’s hard to shift to younger audiences, because Topps knows it’s biggest money is with the older generations/collectors, but at some point, this needs to be addressed, or the hobby will slowly die out for good.
Why does everybody who claims to be a “true collector” keep talking about money?
I for one am crap-in-my-pants ecstatic that there are so many people willing to spend $150-300 on boxes of cards and turn them around on eBay. Why? Because then I can buy the cards of my guys that I want to collect for $5-40 apiece. I wish one of the mfgs would make 100 Dawson cards this year, so that I would have something new to collect. Sadly, there will probably be 10-15.
I could care less if my cards in my COLLECTION are valuable. I have no intention of ever selling them. I collect them as a HOBBY because I am a fan of the players I collect.
If not for player collectors, this hobby would have died out long ago.
Everyone can throw their money at the $300 packs all they want. I wait and just collect the base CUBS cards and put them in my album just like I did when I was a kid. I do prefer refractors, but I really could care less about game used patches, I would rather have the whole jersey that i could wear anyway.
This is what we mean. You collect what you want and be happy, we will collect what we want and be happy. The problem is not that 300 dollar cards exist, its that there are a vocal minority who think that they dont have a place now that packs cost 5 bucks a piece. You dont see people like us running around complaining that Topps feels that they need to release Heritage twice (High and low numbers) every year. Its because there is no reason to run our mouths like that. People need to accept that the lanscape of the hobby has changed, and like someone said, you cant “unring” the bell. We accept the place of low end products, because of the people like you guys who buy them and have fun with them.
Just an FYI too, cutting hits and cutting products will hurt, not help. Im not sure where that idea came from. The industry isnt hurting because hits were added to each box. The hobby is hurting because of the general state of the economy, and because bad habits of morally corrupt people who run the companies. The reason the hobby became a billion dollar business that has shrunk to 100 million is because of the advent of new autograph and jersey card technology. Not the other way around.
I think this issue goes back before game used relics and autographs. Before that, there were plain insert cards. I remember when 1992-93 Stadium Club Basketball came out. No one wanted the base cards. Everyone wanted the Shaq Beam Team card.
It all goes back to the start of inserts and “hits.” Hits are just defined differently now than it was then.
If you guys really want to get technical about this, the decline really started in the time that everyone seems to wax so poetic about. Right around 1990 is when the card companies started to realize just how much money they could make off of the perceived “value” that cards had. That’s why they produced 243 bajillion cases during that time.
This would be the “junk” wax that Rob at VOTC uses to get his fire pit started.
The reason why it became a billion dollar industry is because people who had no interest in cards whatsoever, went out and bought cases of 90-91 Upper Deck to put in their basement as an “investment”. Not kidding here. My grandfather’s stock portfolio manager actually told him to go out and do this.
There was no way in hell the industry could be sustained at this level. Like I have said many times before, just the fact that an industry that is entirely based on the expenditure of discressionary income can still do any kind of business during a recession of this magnitude, is a miracle unto itself.
“Look, I love those high-end products but if you are a true collector do you really need 3-4 ‘hits’ in your box of 2009 Icons? ”
Please define “true collector”.
Excellent post Mario! Great read!
I am one of the collectors that looks but doesn’t touch anymore. I walked away from this hobby before the ecomomy took a downward spriral. The hobby is not fun anymore. There is too much and every other month a product comes out were it is way to much for the risk. When I collected Canseco, when I saw the first 1/1 of him it went for 2000.00. I can’t afford to collect him if the cards I want are going to be limited. In the 80′s early 90′s late 90′s the insert was the chase but never fewer than 1000 copies, today good luck with the bullshit gimmicks and lower than 25 copies. Collecting was about fun, but when the high end products came out it made non collectors come into the hobby for a quick buck. Don’t beleive me, look at the pack searchers, the tube and see all the scams. This hobby has become the adult sport stock market, instead of buying to collect say Petterson, you find that rare 1/1 patch and sell it quick. A real collector would keep it to show off. People say that the hobby is not dying I disagree, yeah ebay and the internet has made it more collector friendly, but where did it all start coner stores. I once and a while will get a pack or two, but I would rather buy something that has a little more meaning now than a piece of cardboard, and a gimmick for starters I think I’ll buy a Mitchell and Ness, at least I can wear 300.00.
Remember back in the 80′s when you could save up your topps wrappers and send them in and get a glossy all star set? I wished companies would do something like this again. Like save up 10 wrappers and get a jersey card or save 50 and get a autograph.
Lol, Mario
J.R Towles is my favorite player and I am apalled that you would insult him that much… If I opened my box of sterling and got a J.R Towles box, I would be super happy.
But.. I do understand and agree with you on the hobby today. I am 14 and wish that their would be a Topps Total set that people like me with less money could enjoy.
Kevin,
Sorry for the jab. I have nothing against the guy I just needed a name and considering the Astros just crushed my Marlins I had to pick one of them!
Oh yeah and to see my collection go to http://www.towlescards.webs.com
No problem Mario, I was joking anyway lol, thanks for all your email responses about questions. Now with Pudge traded Towles will soon get called up and start his Hall Of Fame career… and I do have a 1/1 Towles Printing plate
jl brings up a good point: the hobby started going downhill when it wasn’t fun anymore (i.e. when the prospectors started to take over the hobby from people who collected just for the fun of it).
And, yes, it’s been going downhill for a long time, so I don’t buy the argument that “it’s because of the economy”.
Listen, if it’s all about the economy, why are people still spending $10 per ticket on seeing horrible Summer movies like G.I. Joe and Transformers? Why are not only kids, but adults, buying more video games than ever before? Using “the economy” as the reason for the shortterm decline of the industry is weak. The reality is the decline has been going on for the past decade or two.
If Beaverman and Gellman want to prospect $600 boxes all day, that’s their choice. The hobby will eventually dry up without fresh blood, though. That’s not opinion–it’s fact. There needs to be product out there that everyone can afford that ISN’T hideously ugly too (yes, Topps Opening Day–I’m talking about you).
Until then, the hobby will continue to shrink more and more, just like it has with model plane builders and stamp collectors, until it’s virtually no more.
PS Kevin – Towles had better put it together this next year, if the Astros decide to give him another chance. Otherwise, there’s a certain 2008 first round draft choice in Corpus Christi that’ll soon take his place.
If Beaverman and Gellman want to prospect $600 boxes all day, that’s their choice. The hobby will eventually dry up without fresh blood, though. That’s not opinion–it’s fact.
And, from what most people are saying, the new blood are almost 95% people like me. So, technically, moving your way would prevent a lot of those people from sticking around. Then what do you do?
By the way, no one prospects on $600 boxes. They prospect on $600 cases of chrome and bowman product. People who buy High end, buy because they can.
Amen Steve
Gell and Beaver I know you like you high end stuff and you don’t want to lose it but you have to admit that the hobby has been in a tailspin for a while now.
Gellman doesn’t it bother you that there so much autographed and memoribillia cards out there of rookies like percy harvin. There’s over 80 auto’s on Ebay already of percy harvin and the season hasn’t even started yet an most of the sets for the year are not out yet. It’s like buying rugs at the local wal-mart where the thrill of busting open. Unfortuneatly the card companies will keep throwing in hits and jack up the price til nobody really cares anymore because the hits will become more and more worthless then the hobby will be dead.
I am now convinced that Mario writes posts like this at least once a week because he loves to see the debates that predictably ensue between the low end and high end collectors. While the debates can sometimes be entertaining, they’re starting to occur too often here, and I keep hearing the same points being made over and over again. Oh what a wonderful world it would be if people would accept that not everyone likes to collect the same thing as them, and that there is no such thing as a “true” or “real” collector.
Again talking about money and worth. I thought it was about collecting, yet all you “true collectors” keep bringing up money.
By the way, collectors do not buy $600 boxes. The smart ones buy the singles of the players they like from eBay and shops/shows.
You know what. After reading Dave’s most recent post, you can completely disregard my last comment. I think he’s right, and I for one am done getting into these bullshit debates with all of the single minded people whose only apparent goal here is to bash high end products.
Neither I nor Gellman has ever told you that you are wrong for collecting sets or whatever else you enjoy, yet we consistantly get called out and told that our way of collecting is wrong even though it is constantly referred to incorrectly as “prospecting $600 boxes”.
I collect cards of the players I like, period.
So, from now on, you won’t see me wasting my time on any posts here regarding this same, tired, largely made up, one-sided debate.
Good Day
Yeah, im really tired of beating this dead horse. Its become more of a debate driving vehicle instead of one that actually presents new points.
Dave & Charlie,
My goal is to get collectors talking about the good & the bad in the industry. Personally, I think this went a lot better and more civilized then the other debate, which by the way was a couple of paragraphs and a video. If you want to sit through hundreds of
commentariespress releases on what’s new in The Hobby, I hear Beckett has a blog.As for beating a dead horse, that would be continuing to bash every single release from every company, which is what many do. I am passionate about collecting, when I don’t like a brand I tell it how it is, when I like something I really love it and it shows in the posts.
I agree with the comments that different people collect different things. I have no problem with folks collecting the high end stuff. There’s obviously a market for it otherwise the card companies wouldn’t keep making it. I think the frustration the “low-end” collectors feel (and I’m one of them) is that there’s a perception that those collectors are getting left behind. All I want is for the companies to put some effort into the base brands as far as design and make them affordable for younger collectors. My worry is that we’ve essentially priced a whole generation of collectors out of the hobby. As one person mentioned, being the youngest person at age 33 at a card show is troubling. I refuse to believe that Topps can’t make a 792 card base set at, say, $1.49/pack with 12 cards in a pack. What do you all think?
The point I was trying to make is that if people want to buy high end products, who am I to say they can’t or that they shouldn’t? It’s their money and they can waste it however they please. It doesn’t make them any more or less of a person if they do either.
The underlying problem, though, is that hobby needs new collectors in order to survive and thrive and that’s simply not happening with the products that are out there right now.
Kids don’t buy sportscards anymore because, yes, there are other distractions out there (like Pokemon, video games, the internet, etc.), but also because a pack of cards is simply too expensive and the lower end products are too inferior to the mid and high end stuff.
If I was a 10 year old kid in 2009 and knew the cheapest sportscard product out there (which I could probably afford to buy a few packs of on an allowance anyway) was clearly not as good as higher end products that cost 10 or 100x more, why even bother?
As someone wrote on a previous post, a video game is about the same price as a low to mid range box of cards and provides not only more entertainment value, but (as crazy as it sounds) probably holds its value better over time too. The card companies need to realize this and find a better way to get kids interested again with, among other things, better designs and cheaper pricepoints.
Totally agree with you Mario
I think that Mario knows exactly what he’s doing when he makes a post like this. Debate is good.
I hope that whenever this topic comes up Gellman and Charlie and Dave weigh in. Their opinions are important. You never know when a new collector or a potential collector would happen upon one of these threads and read the debate for the first time.
As far as me, I guess I’m mostly a low end baseball collector, and I stand firmly behind Gellman and Charlie. Not only is their way of collecting just as good as mine, there’s more of them. And, the high end probably is driving the industry more than anything now. I think that those of you who think that less high end would mean better low end are sorely mistaken.
Lastly, about getting kids into the hobby, I don’t have an answer, but I sure as hell doubt its a big base set release with no hits. Do you really think that kids would collect more if Topps Opening Day was designed better? That’s crazy. Kids aren’t stupid. They know what the hits are, they know what the valuable cards are, and they want them too. They probably want them more.
When you where opening your 1987 Topps as a kid, what card did you want? Mark McGwire, right? Why? Because his was the rookie card that was worth $5 or whatever it was. To pretend that kids would be lining up at the 7-11 to buy $1 packs of cards with their allowance because they have a nice border and a good photo is lunacy. That ship has sailed.
Like I said, I don’t have an answer, but that ain’t it.